The fact that she is so named suggests that she got some need for Susanna

The fact that she is so named suggests that she got some need for Susanna

The genealogists the consider it significant you to definitely Nicholas’ partner Clementia try integrated here due to the fact, around regular circumstances, she’d not said. Whenever Susanna on particular later on day obtained off to another protector, the new wife of these guardian wasn’t stated.

This would mean that Queen John spent a little while indeed there and the possibility of an enthusiastic amorous liaison with Clementia can be obtained

Here are some the following is a principle complex because of the specific eminent genealogists, but it’s reasonable to declare that brand new results try hotly contested!

That it principle leads to a delightful and you can interested ‘twist’ regarding facts off Joanna, that may notice admirers of HBD!

On top, there would be absolutely nothing to strongly recommend people commitment involving the hostage, Susanna out-of Wales and Clementia, partner away from Nicholas de Verdun. However, the experience of particular genealogists with international hostages, instance youngsters, has been that they was indeed commonly put having family members, if any were readily available.

Bouncing forward to 1236, there was an entrance throughout the Tewkesbury annals hence pertains to Joanna’s mommy once the “Queen Clemencie!” They checks out simply:

Now, it is known that mommy away from Joanna was titled Clementia (Clemence?

In this situation the new monk is actually obviously indulging for the medieval legalism. Ahead of their particular passing, Joanna is legitimised by Pope. On such basis as you to definitely legitimisation, the new Tewksbury monk plainly took they on themselves to elevate Joanna’s mommy with the reputation away from King, since if their own mommy had been Queen John’s wife! It is a fact but not, that King John and you can Clementia had been never partnered. By the discussing Joanna’s mom because the “Queen” Clementia, the brand new monk just who registered Joanna’s demise try showing his high esteem to possess Joanna, yet not attempting to alter the genuine activities.

When it comes to identity out of Clementia de Verdun, Paget signifies that she try brand new daughter regarding Roger de- Dauntsey, out of Wiltshire. One genealogist takes into account it tall one Clementia hailed regarding Wiltshire because he’s got pointed out that Queen John had a powerful connection to help you you to definitely condition, it as the house off their safest partners, the brand new Longespee, ilies and you can Geoffrey Fitz Peter.

Genealogists are finding the identity ‘Clementia’ is actually really unusual one of English noblewomen of period. In a single dining table regarding ladies’ names that has been built-up, there were just a few incidents of your label “Clementia” from a total of 1407 ladies in the attempt! The reality that people titled Clementia would-be from the Susanna is regarded as extreme.

Very! The evidence are suggestive, although not definitive, you to definitely in 1228, Susanna, as an excellent hostage, got out over the fresh new care of their maternal grandmother, now spouse away from Nicholas de Verdun!!

Brand new Scottish genealogists of your MacDuffs’ keep one Susanna ferch Llywelyn was given birth to 1214 in Gwynnedd, Wales and you may died c. 1259 when you look at the Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland. She partnered Malcolm MacDuff, Earl out of Fife within the 1230 and had several people: Sir Colbran MacDuff, Earl from Fife, born 1245, passed away 1270 and you may MacDuff MacDuff produced 1247.

Without a doubt, you can find restrict arguments to which conjecture! King John got many mistresses and perhaps possibly seven illegitimate children. The caretaker off Joanna would have been born circa 1172 and you will marriageable circa 1184. Joanna by herself was given birth to circa 1191 (fourteen yrs old in the course of their particular matrimony in order to Llywelyn). Rohese, the latest understood genuine daughter off Nicholas de- Verdun and his awesome wife Clementia came to be circa 1210-1213. In the event the Clementia try the mother out of Joanna, she would come into her late 30’s, early 40’s when pregnancy to Rohese! Not impossible, certain say, however, not very likely.

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